Interview with Dean Norvell

 

How did you know you wanted to start a career in STEM?

I just always loved science. I found it interesting, and I knew that's what I wanted to study. My father was the first in his family to go to college. He earned a PhD in toxicology. My mother was also a scientist from England. She moved to the States to work in a lab at Cornell University alongside a professor whom she met while he was on sabbatical at Cambridge University. Education is what helped them move up in the world. From a very young age, I knew this type of degree [Ph.D.] existed and that you could become an expert in a specific area. When I was in grad school, I became a TA and I really liked working with undergraduate students. This is when I took my path onto becoming a professor – it just evolved.

Can you share some challenges you faced as a woman in the field of science and how you?

That's a hard question. I can't think of as like a specific time when happened and I thought “Oh, that's because I'm a woman in science.” It’s so insidious - it has to do with how people view you and how seriously they take you. All women get mansplained, or people explained – whatever you want to call it – or they don't take you seriously or discount you. Sometimes you can really see it – you just instinctively know what's happening. I guess in the sciences, biology is relatively balanced, meaning in grad school it was 50% ratio of women and men. But, as you move up, it’s lower and lower. You don’t see women in leadership positions as much.

There's a very famous female zebrafish biologist at MIT, Nancy Hopkins, who’s written a book about this called The Exceptions. She is unbelievably well-known and very successful. She worked her way up to being a full professor at MIT. I believe she was moving into a new area of research and needed a little bit more space. When she asked her dean for more space, he denied it and told her that she had the same space as other male professors in her department. She went back and physically measured the space in her lab, and, of course, she had less. She had done really well and always thought discrimination like this didn’t apply, but it was there.

So how do you overcome that? It’s true that in some spaces, women are outnumbered and continue to be outnumbered. I guess the best way to overcome that is to just always try to remind yourself, "Yes, I belong here. I belong at the table." You are as smart as all these other people and try as best as you can. Do not let other people’s perception hinder you in any way. 

What initiatives or programs do you think are crucial for encouraging women to pursue careers in STEM?

Any mentoring programs that help young people, both men and women, establish professional networks. Helping people recognize that mentoring relationships can be really important, but also recognizing that different people want different things from mentors. Encouraging everyone to know that it is okay to establish those relationships and they can really help you move forward.

What advice do you have for young women who aspire to be in leadership roles in STEM fields?

Don't let things that feel like obstacles bump you off the path, because you're always going to face obstacles. There's always going to be a situation/person/something. I had gone to a symposium a few weeks ago with previous students from TCNJ who were part of a National Science Foundation Gateway to Graduate School program. They had a panel discussion at this symposium for the undergraduate students there. One of students in that cohort I worked with. After graduation, she worked for several years and went on to earned a Ph.D. Now, she’s a staff scientist at a pharmaceutical company.  She told a story about something nefarious that happened towards the end of her thesis working with a colleague on data analysis. This individual either gave her the wrong information or deleted the data. She said she went home and decided she was not going to let this person take everything away from her. She said it took her four more months to do the work that needed to be done, and as frustrating as it was, she was not going to let it happen to her. We all face obstacles in life. Try not to let them derail you and keep the long game in mind. Recognize that you might not get to your goal the way you thought you were, and it is okay to change where you want to go. Trust your own instinct. You don't have to make big decision [about graduate school] right now at 18 or 19 or 20. Just keep pursuing what interests you, and pathways will open up. Don't limit yourself.